Hobbyist? Professional? Dividing line or Overlap?

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I adhere the definition of the BIPP. It sounds something like this: a professional photographer is someone who makes at least 50 % of his income from photography.
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So, you Pros get to work and agree upon some terms and then get the word out.

No thank you. I don't want anyone determining how I make my living or giving me a label or restricting me from defining myself as a "professional" - if I chose to or it is in my best interests.

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Hopefully the may join professional guilds and associations and learn to charge fair rates that are commensurate with their good work.


I have actually seen the opposite results. While there should be much value in photography associations (and photography forums for that matter) - what I have seen is that the general mentality (even if the best intentioned) breeds insecurity and that many who are associates feel intimidated by what they perceive others are doing and they are unable to apply it in their own instance. As a result many "professional photographers" who are active members of professional associations are the ones charging the low rates that they themselves complain about. The few who are successful, would be under any circumstance and aren't the least bit concerned with photographers who are charging low rates. Of course many of these self motivated photographers are smart enough to realize that they can benefit greatly by this insecurity and make more money from putting on seminars and telling people what they need to do to be successful - - - than the money they ever make from taking pictures for a living.

A serious detriment to the creativity in my work and the thrill that I got from my paid hobby of photography (that was providing a majority of my family income at that time) - was in the late 1980's when I presumed that there would be an advantage to practicing the portrait and wedding styles that were being promoted in some Rangfinder magazines that a friend had given me. Ultimately I ended up going to 3 or 4 seminars of top pros at the time because I became convinced that it was neccessary to succeed in the business of photography - - - and the influence of all of these supposed "big name pros" (who I knew nothing about before that time even though I had been in business for close to 10 years by then) and the professional association who was dictating the style of photographay required to be a professional and the business practices that should be followed - - - my style momentarily changed to conform lest I not be a "pro" and lose out on business.

While still identifiable as my work, my photographic style quickly changed from the relaxed and casual personality shots that was natural for me, and enjoyable - - - to structured perfectly posed and lit stiff portraits with long boring sessions, just like the big  boys dictated. I abandoned the speed, flexibility and versatility of my beloved 35mm cameras (I had always used medium format cameras also - but 35mm was my primary gear for my documentary style up until that time) and simple controlled lighting for expensive, bulky and clunky large and medium format cameras along with large studio lighting and elaborate studio backdrops (I didn't mind the white paper - but the painted background, yuck). Before long I was producing work with the same look as many of the major professional studios and photographers in the city and was maintaining my work load.

It wasn't until my children (aged 5 to 11 at the time) started responding in disgust to the contorted, twisted and unnatural positioning of my subjects heads, bodies and hands  - that I realized that my work no longer resembled the photography that appealed to me. That photography was what I regularly saw on the newstands in fashion magazines and from photographic works that I saw in books in the library taken by artistic mavericks and trend setters beginning in the years far before Monte Zucker or Bill Stockwell were practicing their methods  of wedding photography and continuing right up until the present. I had begun to lose my interest in my photography as a means to make a living and many times wished I could go back to just doing it for the fun of it - and the way I wanted. After about a year of that "pro" influence, I scrapped all of that mentality and went back to the way that I wanted to interact with the subject and light them and capture them. My joy returned and is still there after 28 years of making a living from what I love to do. Thankfully I never joined the professional associations and even though many times since I have been pushed by other photographers to get involved for "social reasons" (being I'm already successful and have my own style), have always resisted and never really been tempted. Associations have a great social aspect to them and to some degree a snob appeal ("I'm a pro and hangout with big name pros") - - - if that is what one needs.

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THIS IS MY TAKE ON PROFESSIONAL, AMATEUR, HOBBIEST

Firstly - there is nothing in the terms "professional", "amateur" or "hobbiest" that determines whether you are capable of producing a decent or acceptable photograph or not.

I am a pro by definition, because I make money at photography. As far as I'm concerned anyone who makes any kind of money at photography is a pro - even if they only charge $100 and shoot a few weddings a year. Of course I can call myself a professional even if I make little or no money at photography -  because I take photography seriously and produce work up to a professional standard - - - who's going to stop me!  Photography associations have to come up with some type of criteria to determine who is eligable to join their association and keep the stragglers out so as to maintain an image of professionalism, and so have fabricated a number of 50% of income to be rated a pro - - - the  50% figure means nothing to anyone else or any other business. In my province, I am considered to be a business and required to charge Sales Tax if my gross income exceeds I believe $8,000 per year - - - that is a government classification for being considered serious and outside the realm of casual money making (you might conclude professional) - - - although if less than $8,000 per year is brought in, the governent I'm sure still wants that reported for tax purposes (you still might conclude professional - or paid amateur or hobbiest).

This year because I will be and am making a fair hunk of change from my photography, I am a professional and so I guess should no longer be called an amateur. Next year and the years that follow, I may make nothing and so depending on who you talk to could be termed either an amateur because I no longer make money from photography or a professional because I have made money at photography. All I know as that as of right now photography is my business and means to paying the rent and eating - and it is also my hobby because I am still passionate about it and have a wide scope of interest and content for which I use my photographic equipment and knowledge to capture.

If I was wanting to pursue photography as a business, I would (and probably did) justifyably call myself a "Professional Photographer" even if I hadn't had a person hire me or pay for a print - that would be the marketing term I may need to get clients to hire me, or to set myself apart from my causual enjoyment of photography. Or say I were pursuing a field such as Stock, Fine Art or Landscape where the chances of being hired by someone may be slim to non existent for some time and image or print sales may take a while to come in - - -a serious commitment to my venture and "professional" level of photography and pursuit of exposing that work to others may allow me to differentiate between shooting for the fun of it and seeing myself (and maybe others seeing me) as a professional photographer. Or I may take my photography very seriously producing images of a high caliber and prefer to be considered an amateur photographer because I don't like the commercial aspect of photography and don't want the expectations of being a pro to adversly affect my creative vision. OR maybe I just love photography and taking pictures and have no asperations of turning it into a profession - then I would consider myself an amateur who loves his/her hobby of photography or you may not consider it a hobby but a passion or creative release.

The terms can all OVERLAP and the definitions are all subjective.

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« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 06:19:57 AM by robertwatcher »
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OR maybe I just love photography and taking pictures and have no asperations of turning it into a profession - then I would consider myself an amateur who loves his/her hobby of photography or you may not consider it a hobby but a passion or creative release.

That would be me.

Oh I know it hurts, but if you don't derive 50% or more of your income from photography, Millers won't print your photos. However MPix will be glad to on the same machines and paper. [shrug]
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"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one heck of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult. "- EB White

Chattanooga Photographer www.BobEdens.com

Miller's won't print your photos if you don't make that much?  They are happy to print mine, although I don't use them anymore in favor of a local lab.
The percentage I make is well over 50% of my income, but not of my household income.... regardless they don't know how much I make.  They did make sure I had a tax ID number.

See when it all comes down to it I guess it doesn't matter who in the photography community thinks I am a professional.  I act professionally and my clients think I am a professional.  I have a legitimate business with a business license and I pay my taxes.  Photography is not really a hobby of mine, it's work, work that I quite like, but work, nonetheless.  My hobbies include reading, and various art projects, not that I have much time for them...  If I have my camera in hand it is because I am on an assignment or I am experimenting with a new lens or camera settings, all for the sake of taking better pictures for other people. 

The opposite of being professional is being unprofessional.  I doubt anyone on this forum is unprofessional  Smiley
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I am pleased to see so many responses to this thread- it is an old question but it always generates some interesting philosophies, ides and even contradictions.  There is nothing wrong with being a renaissance man or woman- people that are quite good or even “professional” at various disciplines- why not.  One talent or passion need not necessarily detract or distract from another and sometimes different things can harmonize very nicely with one’s main profession or source of income. 

In my own case my interests in electronics, food preparation, music, graphic arts, repairing and designing my own lighting equipment and even preparing advertising and copy-have helped me serve my customers better in commercial food photography, building sets, designing printed matter, doing audio visual and multi-media presentations and in-store and trade show displays - besides- I can serve up one heck of a roast beef!  I don’t need to call in a contractor every time I need to fix something at the house or the studio- that can save me time and money- ever try to get an electrician or a plumber to come in on time?  You’ll have an easier time getting in to see a brain surgeon, His Holiness the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Chief Rabbi of Israel- all at the same time in the same room!  If I have excluded any other religious leader, please forgive me- just add them to the list- feel free!  If you want add the Queen of England, the President of the Unite States and the Prim Mister of Canada to the mix- just go right ahead- you won’t be far off!

Sometimes it is good to do “something else” once in a while to give your mind a rest and come back to the photographic day job somewhat relaxed and renewed- perhaps with some new ideas and thoughts.

Practically speaking in plain English; a professional is someone who known exactly what he or she is doing in the chosen field or specialty, does not hesitate or become flustered in the course of his or her work and acts in a competent and ethical way.  Of course, the work should be of such a caliber that customers will be willing to pay for his or her services on an ongoing basis so as to enable the professional to make a decent living from his or her labors.  This however, is the tip of the iceberg if you want to completely examine the philosophy of professional there are many more concepts to consider.  Here are some to ponder:

A true pro never will never take on a job that is beyond his expertise, equipment capabilities or scope of services without fully informing his or her client what the limitations are or if other personnel need to be called in- such as food stylists or aerial specialists. 

True pros have to have a good grip on the business aspects of his work in order to maintain good customer services and stay in business long enough to complete all pending and ongoing assignments.  This means to have the know how in price structure, profitability, costing out jobs, working with employees and sub contractors and business management and sales methodologies in general.  Under quoting and pricing lead to all kinds of unmitigated disasters which can kill you business like some kind of fast acting poison.  What goes on behind the scenes, in your business, can affect you professionalism just as positively or negatively as what you have displayed in your front window or on your web site.

Your gracious behavior when you at weddings and special events and your willingness to help each and every client- even the difficult ones- adds to your professionalism and you image just as much as doing good work.  I have heard people say “The photographer I hired has golden hands and golden eyes- every image was perfect but if I knew how much intrusion he was going to inflict on my wedding day, I would have never hired him (her)”!  You do not want to be that photographer!

About professional associations- To some degree, Rob is right- they can stunt one’s creativity and artistic growth and instead of encouraging being unique or different the can tend to MANUFACTURE a whole tribe of “one note” photographers and “idol” worshipers.  My idea in suggesting affiliations with such groups is that they CAN help aspiring professionals to take SOME direction rather that floundering around for years as to costs, fees, pricing an even furnish some information as to what are minimum standards that the general public will accept as decent work.  Many associations do foster self improvement and technical education and artistic values as well.  As for stepping out of the box, looking at things differently or just being more creative and original- this is really up to each individual photographer.  Talent can be developed but not necessarily book learned or taught.  Some folks are leaders, pace setters, innovators and artists while others may not have theses traits.  Some people just want to take decent acceptable pictures and some want to create art even out of mundane subjects and events.  Some photographers are emotionally involved with their subjects while others are happy to be good observers and documentary photographers/artists. 

I am not one to dictate what anyone should do with their professional life, how to approach their photography or even WHO should be considered a professional.  On the other side of by brain, I WOULD like to se a little more of a professional standard applied, if for no other reason that I have, for nearly 50 years earned a decent living from my craft and hate to see it totally diluted by incompetents or folks that don’t, at least, do a fair, ethical and decent job for the people.  That kind of thing makes it more and more difficult for sincere workers to earn a fair dollar.  It is as simple as that!

I am always willing to teach some of this to people who want to learn.  Some folks prefer the “School of Hard Knocks” which includes master classes in business failure, financial turmoil, client disappointment, lawsuits, complaints, bad publicity and even bankruptcy.  Some of us do learn that way but there is a lot of pain involved and why endure pain?

The biggest part of being a professional is knowing what you are doing, delivering what you promise and being fair and kind to you clients.  What percentage of your income is derived from photography, when you do your photography- by night or by day, is really your own business and nobody has the right to tell you what to do or restrict your activities as long as everything is on the up and up! 

That’s more of my take on the matter! 

Ed (S)  Grin









 
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Ed Shapiro
The Hintonburg Studio
Suite 201  78 Hinton Avenue North
Ottawa, Ontario CANADA  K1Y 0Z8
613-792-4837    Email:  edshapiro@rogers.com

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The biggest part of being a professional is knowing what you are doing, delivering what you promise and being fair and kind to you clients.  What percentage of your income is derived from photography, when you do your photography- by night or by day, is really your own business and nobody has the right to tell you what to do or restrict your activities as long as everything is on the up and up! 

Here Here  *raises glass*
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"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one heck of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult. "- EB White

Chattanooga Photographer www.BobEdens.com

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