Marian's Portrait Learning Thread :)Library Thread

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Okay, 400 ISO, f/3.5, 1/20th of a second.
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 11:39:44 AM by wildmaven »
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Comments and Harsh Critiques gladly accepted. My photos are ok to edit.

My photos and art: http://wildmaven.org

Even at -2 EC your still shooting at ISO 800. This is going to give you noise problems.
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-John
Sarcasm, frustrating the clueless since 3000 b.c.

Shooting at 18mm will cause foreshortning, which means whatever is closest to the lens will look larger than what it actually is.  The lens you used in the last posted image was an 18mm and see what it did to your nose? Most photographers use telephoto lenses in the 100mm range for head and shoulders portraits which will prevent foreshortening.

Benji
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Thanks, Benji. I'll put on my other lens for the next experiment.

Can you help me with the lighting, though? I have a very cheap set that I bought off of amazon.com and I can't for the life of me get bright pictures at 100-200 ISO. I'm half tempted to go to the hardware store and buy some cheap reflectors and the biggest floodlight I can find, I'm so frustrated. Now that my husband is retired, we don't have the money for me to spend $$$ on lighting just so that I can learn. Sad Is there anything you can suggest?
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Comments and Harsh Critiques gladly accepted. My photos are ok to edit.

My photos and art: http://wildmaven.org

If I have time when I get home I'll get a shot of the DIY softbox I made with a couple 500w shop lights. It's bright, in fact I rigged up a dimmer system for them because they were too bright at times. They're also very hot, so take a few shots and let things cool down if you make something similar to this.
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-John
Sarcasm, frustrating the clueless since 3000 b.c.

Marian, do the lights have settings at all?  Or just on and off.  Are you using a light meter?
What kind of light bulbs does it use?
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Can you help me with the lighting, though? I have a very cheap set that I bought off of amazon.com and I can't for the life of me get bright pictures at 100-200 ISO. I'm half tempted to go to the hardware store and buy some cheap reflectors and the biggest floodlight I can find, I'm so frustrated. Now that my husband is retired, we don't have the money for me to spend $$$ on lighting just so that I can learn. Sad Is there anything you can suggest?

Yes, DON'T buy hot lights. They will burn skin on contact and they will set virtually anything combustible on fire in just a few seconds (been there done that!)  OK,  Try this.  Move the fill light (the one behind the camera) up so it is about about four or five feet from the subject's face, and slightly on the SAME side as where you will be placing the main light.  You should be able to stand in front of the subject and the umbrella of the fill will be right beside you or pretty close.  Then put the main light about two or three feet away from the subject and beside them. DON'T aim either directly at the subject, rather the center of the light should just miss the subject's face. This is called "feathering" the light.

Do that and post the results.

Ben
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Thanks, Benji! I tried your way first. I have never heard of having the fill on the same side as the main. The second image, I put the fill on the other side of me than the main, just to see the difference.

I don't know why the EXIF isn't coming up, but here's the file data from File Info in PhotoShop:

1/30 sec.
Exposure Program: Manual
f/1.4
200 ISO
Focal length: 50mm
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Comments and Harsh Critiques gladly accepted. My photos are ok to edit.

My photos and art: http://wildmaven.org

Better!

I always put the fill near the main, although it's more center, almost right behind me (and the camera).  I use my main light really super close so it is nice and soft and the fill further back and higher.
Benji's right about feathering, I feather the main, but I don't worry so much about the fill.  You can also feather slightly down or up too.
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Marian, looking back at the light in your eyes and the shadow from your nose - your lights are too low.
On the first on I think your main can be closer to the camera to light your face better.
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Interesting math people, main and fill on the same side, hmm, interesting.

You're getting there Marian, you are being confused about the lighting, however, YOU were on the right track about the placements of the lights on #2

Arms length with main, and go downtown with the fill for the shadow side, depends on how downtown you want to go, same as main, 2:1, going downtown, 3:1, 5:1, 9:1
3:1 best for you, remember, shadow side to camera and use fill ratio. Turn face towards the main.

Short lighting BTW

For a basic height, raise arm, palm of hand for height if standing, if sitting, same idea.
Pointing lights at a certain degree, nope, horizontal will do.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 10:41:36 PM by Mike Hodgson »
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Interesting math people, main and fill on the same side, hmm, interesting.


Marian, I really think you should pick up a book about basic portrait lighting with diagrams.  Get one at the library, they have plenty and are free.
Putting the fill in the center and main to the side is certainly acceptable.  Putting the main on the opposite side of the fill is also fine, as is using a reflector.  It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.  Once you understand each set up and know what they do you can choose how to light each person for each situation. 

The degree thing is tough for me.  I don't "speak" math.  I use my modeling light and look where the light is going.  Find examples of portraits you like and study where the light falls on their face, where the shadow of the nose is and catchlights if you are sure they are not digitally manipulated.  Try and repeat that, which is hard if you are the model, that's why Ryan mentioned using the head.
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Try and repeat that, which is hard if you are the model, that's why Ryan mentioned using the head.

Unfortunately, I'm not liking the fake head. It has catchlights painted on, and the skin is so reflective, nothing at all like how light caresses real skin.

I have at least 5 books on portrait photography and have read them at least 3 times each. Tongue Alas, none of them have diagrams, they just say that the fill should be x value from the main and how you need a kicker and a hairlight and a background light. But they spend 3 chapters on the rule of thirds. Tongue

I was wondering if you guys could take some photos of a willing subject while using your lights, but only using a fill and a main, no other lights, so I can see how it should look.

At least I'm finally getting the lights where I don't have to set the ISO at 800 anymore! Grin

Short lighting BTW

For some reason, I like my own face broad lit, maybe because of the pudgy cheeks, ha ha.

Quote
For a basic height, raise arm, palm of hand for height if standing, if sitting, same idea.
Pointing lights at a certain degree, nope, horizontal will do.

Well, I'm going to play more tomorrow, so I'll give that a try. I really appreciate the help from everyone. I'm taking notes and doing little drawings of light configurations as they are mentioned, so I'll certainly be seeing what works for me over the next couple of days. Wheeeeeeeee... you guys are all great! Smiley

On a side note, this new f/1.4 50mm lens is AWESOME!!! Grin
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 12:30:27 AM by wildmaven »
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Comments and Harsh Critiques gladly accepted. My photos are ok to edit.

My photos and art: http://wildmaven.org

Here's a link that will let you dee where you can place your lights.
http://www.sdgphoto.com/lightingstudio/

Quick Example
http://www.sdgphoto.com/lightingstudio?N=Quick Test&L=rrw8|491.7|370.25|-59.64|22$m2f|329.75|302.9|23.67|19$cz|381.8|567.4|-1.27|18$sf|222.35|532.45|19.15|17$sbk|148.2|352.9|78.32|16$fdh|364.65|74.45|179.09|12$fdb|490.6|210.05|-42.05|10$bwht8|352.85|54.05|0|3
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 05:45:21 AM by jkleb »
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-John
Sarcasm, frustrating the clueless since 3000 b.c.

Basic

camera is based on lens used, I picked the zoom lens camera. The lights are in a ratio position to achieve 3:1 a light meter helps to get;
5.6 on main and somewhere at 1 and 1/2 fstops which would be what, 3.5 that would give you f 8 of light on the face, 3:1

Broad light? turn face away from main
Short light? turn face to main

Fill will do his thing to whatever distance to placed him. He fills the shadows to however much you would like.




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« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 07:09:00 AM by Mike Hodgson »
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