NY Nick get's Hitched

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Ok, because I'm totally confused by the plastic skin comments, I'm uploading the original images (the first ten, but can produce them all if need be).  These images have been converted from RAW only.  I'm not being confrontational, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why my images are so often said to be "plastic".  (You aren't the only one Mike).  Should I be adding noise?  What?

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Admittedly I worked number 10 to hell and back. :-)

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Proud Member of: WPJA, WPPI, TPPA, PPA, and NAPP

"I want to warn you, my photos will always be a bit more fantasy than reality."

Hi Cindy.  I really like the entire set.  Your work is always inspriational and beautiful.  It is very contemporary.  As for the plastic skin look, if I were to venture a guess it would be due to several things that it appears you do in most of the images I have ever seen from you.  The whites of the eyes have usually been whitened to the point that there is no more shadow side to them, making them flatten out (no definition of shape) and therefore look doll-like.  Your client's teeth are whiter than most I've seen.  And they always have perfectly soft and flawless skin.  Honestly, in this series of images, I only really noticed it on the more formal image of just the two of them (#11).  The rest don't look worked on so much.  I personally am not bothered by the look of your subjects.  I don't, and probably won't start doing it in my own images, but that doesn't make it wrong.  You have a distinct syle, which is why your clients hire you.  You have mentioned that point on here before.  Honestly (and I will probable start a debate here), I think you should keep doing just what you are doing.  Some people's businesses succeed because they follow all the rules.  Some succeed because they break them all.  Some from pure luck. Etc, etc, etc.  If you are doing your art the way you want, and your clients love it, then why change?  I am not trying to say not to continue learning, but all of us are going to lean toward a certain look and style; if we weren't different, we'd all be the same.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Travis
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Thank you for your lovely reply Travis.
I admit that I overdo it at times. :-)  I look back, and say, "Man, that's a little much".   Grin  And yes, I definately am on board for learning more, and will happily take all the advice I can get.
The other part of your post is correct as well though.  I get so many referrals from other brides who say, "She made me look like a model in a magazine ad!"
So it's been hard for me to balance.  I don't want the au natural look, but I don't want them to look freaky either. :-)
Thank you for your very kind words.  I'll keep growing, and I'd love to do it with the fine folks here.
But I warn ya, I just got Jesh De Rox's textures, and I'm about to go to "Funky Town"!  LOL
Love you guys....all of ya!
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Proud Member of: WPJA, WPPI, TPPA, PPA, and NAPP

"I want to warn you, my photos will always be a bit more fantasy than reality."

Cindy,

I think that the "noise reduction" being referred to is not what others think it is.  I expect that it is really just the retouching that you are doing.  Do you use a set of PS actions, like Kevin Kubota's?  My guess is that these are what Mike and others are talking about when they refer to "plastic looking" skin.  Do you over do it?  I don't think so, but the only answer that matters is between your clients and yourself. 

Ed
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Ed Farmer
Mount Laurel, New Jersey

www.edfarmerphotography.com
www.photoartsforum.com

Hi Ed,

The action sets I have are Kubota 1,2,3 and Production Tools.  I also have TriCoast's Finding Color, Sallee Color Set, and the Boutwell's set.  The most used is the Boutwells set.
I think the images that people think look plastic, are the one's I use Kubota's "Doll Face" in.  I keep it at low opacity, but that still might be overkill.  I'm thinking about still using it, but adding some small grain in afterwards, so the skin isn't so.....well......doll like. :-)
I'm hoping that might reduce the freaky factor.
I've got lightroom exporting at the moment, but when I get a chance, I'll do a straight Doll Face, and then one with grain to see if that helps.
Thank you guys for the help.
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Proud Member of: WPJA, WPPI, TPPA, PPA, and NAPP

"I want to warn you, my photos will always be a bit more fantasy than reality."

I only noticed one image in this series that was "overdone" in my opinion.  However, I agree with Travis, do what works for you and what makes your clients happy.  If they want to look like models (and who doesn't) they will hire you, not a bad position for you to be in.

Some people are "purists" and others are "airbrushers".  I was at a wedding expo this fall and I was next to a very prominent wedding photographer in the area.  He had the worst attitude.  We were talking about liquify and smoothing skin and whitening teeth and he said "It's not my fault if they are fat, don't wear makeup and don't brush their teeth, I am not spending my time in Photoshop fixing their problems".  I was appalled by his attitude!  I always thought my job was to make someone look their best.  My goal is to make them not realize it was post processing, I want them to think I just work magic with a camera.  Cheesy

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Our language is different.

Do you use a smoothing technique, there are ways to do so. Noise Ninja, Noise reduction is photoshop, Called "Reduce Noise".
Best example in this series is Number 11.

Now, either that, OR, something really funny went wrong here or during compression of jpeg size.

I also see an "Eye" enhancement, was there some done? The whites look very white. Again, could be as mentioned above this line.
Please don't take me as cutting, please.

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Just read your reply up there.

In each action, you can tweak a process, open the action, you can have photoshop stop at each point or just let it do it's thing.

I create actions, especially B/Ws, each action is different, reason being is, the condition, lighting, environment of where it was taken.
I made an action for a wedding photo of my friend who shot the wedding. He was having a hard time with it, I came in and said, here, let me have a look, I made the action, sent it to him with a before and after of the pic.
He sat down with the action and tried his own version, he told me, I cannot come up with my own, your's is strong.

I told him, I have different technique for landscape, slight, but, enough to make a difference between people and outdoors.

Bottom line is, you have to go into the action and have a look at where it can be tweaked.

Mike
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Reading the posts, I really don't have anything to add except.

Never forget you are a unique individual, just like everyone else.   :unknown.
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-----------------------------------
"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one heck of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult. "- EB White

Chattanooga Photographer www.BobEdens.com

Our language is different.

Do you use a smoothing technique, there are ways to do so. Noise Ninja, Noise reduction is photoshop, Called "Reduce Noise".
Best example in this series is Number 11.

Now, either that, OR, something really funny went wrong here or during compression of jpeg size.

I also see an "Eye" enhancement, was there some done? The whites look very white. Again, could be as mentioned above this line.
Please don't take me as cutting, please.


I don't take it as cutting at all.  As I said, you aren't the only one who's told me that, and I thought you were referring to all the images.  That's why I was so confused.
Since I'm told this so often, I have to consider it a problem I must overcome.
I promise never to take a critique as a slam ok?  I'm hear to learn and to grow, and you guys are helping me do that, as I respect every opinion on this forum.
Hugs!

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Proud Member of: WPJA, WPPI, TPPA, PPA, and NAPP

"I want to warn you, my photos will always be a bit more fantasy than reality."

Opps, I replied above in your quote.  Sorry!
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Proud Member of: WPJA, WPPI, TPPA, PPA, and NAPP

"I want to warn you, my photos will always be a bit more fantasy than reality."

Most times I refrain from making comments, just me, I feel as if I'm being too harsh, but, it's not like that.

Glad we are on the same wave length. Thanks. :=)
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In #15, I think it is. The bride dancing......
How do you have  your flash set?
Im having trouble in these types of similar situations getting it 'right'.

Beautiful...by the way.
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Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes.

Oscar Wilde

Hi,
This is going to sound crazy, but I shoot with my flash backwards.  I don't bounce it....just straigt backwards.  That way it just "leaks" light.  That, and I get close.  I always use a 35mm 1.4 for reception stuff, and it's an insanely fast lens.
Nutty I know, but that's how I get that kind of light.
Thank you for your wondeful comments.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 05:05:26 AM by Cindy Crabb »
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Proud Member of: WPJA, WPPI, TPPA, PPA, and NAPP

"I want to warn you, my photos will always be a bit more fantasy than reality."

Interesting.  Do you think your flash is bouncing off a back wall....
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